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Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By setherick
1/28/2017 10:15 am
This post is about all attributes, but the main example I'm going to use is Speed. There has been a lot of discussion on all the forums about how faster players are currently better. And how Speed has become the only attribute that matters. And while I agree in v.4 Speed is the only attribute that is worth anything for most positions, like DEs, none of us really know how it works or what it means. My suggestion for Speed would then to peg 100 on a particular measurement like the 40 yard dash and then decrease arithmetically for each point from 100. So something like this.

40 Yard Dash Time - Game Speed Rating

4.20 - 100
4.21 - 99
...
4.45 - 75
...
4.7 - 50
...
4.95 - 25
...
5.2 - 0

At the same time, I would make elite speed a lot hard to achieve. There are so many players right now that get generated with 90+ SP at all positions. If elite speed actually means elite speed, these players should be very rare. The bulk of players should fall in the 25-75 range, but currently, 75 speed at most positions isn't worth play and lower than that is a player you cut right away. (Unless that player is a WR and then you ignore SP for the most part since there is little difference between 100 and 15 in terms of separation from a DB.)

The other reason why I'm suggesting Speed be looked at first is because it's a static measurable in game terms. The field will be the same size for everyone and it is not affected by a players height or weight. The amount of time it takes a player to get from point A to point B should also be immediately recognizable. There should be no more guessing how fast a 100 SP RB is versus a 100 SP LB versus a 100 SP OL, etc.

You could do something similar with Strength and Acceleration. There would be a lot fewer players out there with 100 attributes, but it would make scouting much more interesting and custom weights much more valuable.

EDIT: I had mistyped something earlier, or at least, I didn't explain it enough.

I think that 100 attribute players should be generated in the 1:100 range (that's an easy enough random number generation) and that all attributes should be configured this way. That way a player with multiple 100s would have a 1/100^n chance of being generated. So a player with two 100s would have a 1/1000; three 100s would be 1/10000; four would be 1/100000, etc. That way players with 4 or 5 100s would be truly special players and not "the players you have to have to be at all successful".
Last edited at 1/28/2017 11:26 am

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By zteacher
1/28/2017 11:55 am
setherick wrote:
That way a player with multiple 100s would have a 1/100^n chance of being generated. So a player with two 100s would have a 1/1000; three 100s would be 1/10000; four would be 1/100000, etc.


Check your maths, 100^2=10000, 100^3=1000000, etc. You were working with powers of 10 starting with 100. Exponential growth is a *****.

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By setherick
1/28/2017 11:59 am
zteacher wrote:
setherick wrote:
That way a player with multiple 100s would have a 1/100^n chance of being generated. So a player with two 100s would have a 1/1000; three 100s would be 1/10000; four would be 1/100000, etc.


Check your maths, 100^2=10000, 100^3=1000000, etc. You were working with powers of 10 starting with 100. Exponential growth is a *****.


That's my bad. Still have not had coffee.

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By parsh
1/28/2017 3:35 pm
Would you also tie Strength into how many 225# reps like in the combine?

To me when I see an OL with 0 strength, I think they can't lift an unweighted bar .. lol

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By setherick
1/28/2017 5:02 pm
parsh wrote:
Would you also tie Strength into how many 225# reps like in the combine?

To me when I see an OL with 0 strength, I think they can't lift an unweighted bar .. lol


Something like that. I've been trying to figure out what best makes sense.

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By WarEagle
1/28/2017 6:51 pm
I've said this before, but...

I think speed and strength should be universal values not dependent on position or size.

A 75 speed player would have the same 40 time regardless of size. Therefore, you would not have any 350 lb lineman with 100 speed.

A player's speed or strength could theoretically increase/decrease if they gain or lose weight.

It would make it a lot less confusing.

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By Mr.Krazy
1/28/2017 7:32 pm
WarEagle wrote:
I've said this before, but...

I think speed and strength should be universal values not dependent on position or size.

A 75 speed player would have the same 40 time regardless of size. Therefore, you would not have any 350 lb lineman with 100 speed.

A player's speed or strength could theoretically increase/decrease if they gain or lose weight.

It would make it a lot less confusing.


+1

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By setherick
1/28/2017 7:33 pm
WarEagle wrote:
I've said this before, but...

I think speed and strength should be universal values not dependent on position or size.

A 75 speed player would have the same 40 time regardless of size. Therefore, you would not have any 350 lb lineman with 100 speed.

A player's speed or strength could theoretically increase/decrease if they gain or lose weight.

It would make it a lot less confusing.


At the end of the day, it would also make maintaining code a whole **** of a lot simpler.

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By Mr.Krazy
1/28/2017 7:38 pm
setherick wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
I've said this before, but...

I think speed and strength should be universal values not dependent on position or size.

A 75 speed player would have the same 40 time regardless of size. Therefore, you would not have any 350 lb lineman with 100 speed.

A player's speed or strength could theoretically increase/decrease if they gain or lose weight.

It would make it a lot less confusing.


At the end of the day, it would also make maintaining code a whole **** of a lot simpler.


I think this should be suggested to JDB for the upcoming season in the beta league. He could rewrite the code up to these standards and see how it all works out.

I believe it would actually fix quite a lot (the only issue I see right now is recoding the current o-lineman attributes in all of the leagues since we have 100 speed Offensive Lines)

Re: Improve Attributes and Make Elite Players Rarer

By setherick
1/28/2017 7:40 pm
Re-writing core algorithms is probably a 120-150 hour project, so I wouldn't expect it any time soon.